Savage Lovers - Help Me Out!!!

goody523 · Post by **goody523** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:01 pm

The weather in Michigan became warm enough to spend some time at the range today so I went out for a few hours with a few guns to check some reloads as well as try out my new Savage Model 12BTVS (non-catalogued version of the 12VLP with a thumbhole stock). I am usually a Browning guy, but everywhere I read about these model 12 Savages the guys love them so I decided to try one out.

I went through the extremely exciting break in procedure for about 20 rounds (that is the worst part of buying a new gun) and then commenced to shooting some groups. I had 4 different factory loads from Black Hills ranging from 50gr to 68 gr, 1 HSM box in 50gr, and 4 different handloads from buddies with different .223's ranging from 50gr to 60gr and they all shot awful. The best groups I was getting off a bench were 1.5-2.0" at a hundred yards and most were worse than that. Checked the scope and mounts - everything is fine. I believe I have read elsewhere that some of these Savages take 150 rounds or so to settle down - please tell me that there is some truth to this or this thing is going to be turned in for a Cooper or Sako real fast (Rick, feel free to have at me for not going with the Sako out of the gate).

In case you think it is my ability to shoot, my Browning .204 and Sako .25-06 were turning in nice 1/2" groups (give or take) while the .223 cooled down. I know this isn't Olympic quality shooting like a lot of guys on the web seem capable of, but it is way better than the Savage was doing. Any input from the Savage guys out there?

janneuf · Post by **janneuf** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:15 pm

I don't know about factory break-in being substantial. To tell the truth I didn't do anything like what people suggest. I went out, shot a box and came home and cleaned it. I was shooting sub MOA from the first day with factory loads in my Savage 12 .204. Now that I'm loading it's much better than that.

Do you suppose it could be the accu-trigger? I spent a long time dry-firing it to get the hang of it.

82boy · Post by **82boy** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:42 pm

I have never seen a savage thet would not shoot under 1. groups out of box. with any ammo. all I have delt with will shoot at least a.500 group without problem.

I would look for something else, I can not belive it is the gun. What brand of scope do you have on it ? Do you have another scope to try ? also make sure your front scope base is tight. Sometimes the screws, sent out with bases, can be to long and contact, and bottom out, on the barrel threads. The scrws will be tight but the mount will be loose.

make sure your scot bolts are tight sometimes they somehow become loose, and the action will move in the stock.

Last off if your not use to the accu-trigger sit and dry fire it a bit and get use to it, take up the slack in the center blade, then rest and the slowly squeze the trigger in till it clicks.

The barrels do need a bit to settle in, but should atleast shoot 3/4 in groups, and settel down to 1/2 in or better.

Lee C. · Post by **Lee C.** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:21 am

goody523, My last 3 gun's have been all savage's. and they are a little rough in the barrel. I hand polish the barrels with flitz befor they ever get shoot. My 223 reload I us h335 powder and a 60gr. bullet and it will shoot under half inch at 200yds. any day i do my part. When i first got my 204 it wouldn't shoot under 1 inch with factory 32gr bullets. But the guy's here got me on h4895powder and a 35gr. berger bullet and the accuracy is really good now with about 200 rounds down the barrel. If you think there is no problem with the stock or scope and you have some one how well do some reloading for you. then play around with different powder and bullets and bullet seatings. Don't give up on it yet, I have yet to see a savage that wouldn't shoot good.Sorry i couldn't help you out more Lee.

Robert harrel · Post by **Robert harrel** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:09 am

goody the savage also should have a 1 in 9 twist if you can shoot some heavier bullets it might help just a thought.

glenn asher · Post by **glenn asher** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:48 am

A friend of mine was going thru the same thing with another Savage .223, he was using Remington bulk 50s and having awful luck. A good cleaning, and a switch to other bullets perked it right up, under a 1/2" most of the time. I'd try some different ammo, for starters.

Hawkeye Joe · Post by **Hawkeye Joe** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:50 am

goody523
I have a uncataloged Savage 12BGTV IN .223 also.Mine is the Blue version with a 1-9 twist. I shot every bullet out there with H335. The Sierra 69gr HPBT and Berger 55gr match gave me the best groups ever. In any caliber.

When shooting keep the rear bag close to the recoil pad. This gives me 3+ inches of consistent stock width for the gun to recoil before the rear bag hits the thumbhole cut-out.If you allow the rear bag to rest or slide onto the cut-out, the gun will TWIST clockwise during recoil.

Time to update pic

It now has a much better scope on it

goody523 · Post by **goody523** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:57 am

I think I'll check the scope and mounts first and I'll have to try placing the rear bag way back (I don't think that was the issue, but I wasn't specifically thinking about it so I will check next time). I suppose it could be the AccuTrigger, but to be honest it felt fine to me once I got used to the feel of it ( I did dry fire it a bunch before I went to the range). I can't believe it was an ammo issue as I tried:

Factory
Black Hills - 50 gr HP
Black Hills - 50 gr V-Max
Black Hills - 60 gr SP (these grouped the best, but it was still 1-1/2")
Black Hills - 68 gr HP BT
HSM - 52 gr Double HP Calhoons

Handloads
3 different loads with 50 gr V-Max
2 different handloads with 60 gr V-Max

The thing that was really bad about this deal was that my dad and brother were both there with their new .223's (dad had a Weatherby sub-MOA and my brother had a Remington 700 CDL) and they both out shot the Savage by a long margin with every load. The Remington shot the best - in fact its worst groups were way better than the Savage's best groups. I was really surprised that the 1:12 Remington grouped everything pretty consistently - even the 68 gr HPBT. The Weatherby was far more picky about what it liked, but it found a couple of handloads that were putting it just a hair over 1/2" which my dad was happy with.

I thought I might be having a bad day so I switched to my Browning .204 and Sako .25-06 and was shooting both of those great (weather was perfect - 45 degrees and almost no wind). I shot my dad's Weatherby and brother's Remington - both grouped great with their favorite loads. I had my brother and dad try my Savage - same deal, horrible 1-1/2" to 2" groups.

I have a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5x14 AO that I moved from my .22/250 so I know the scope is fine, but I will double check the mounts and bases.

I really hope I can get this thing to shoot as I was getting a lot of crap from my dad about buying a Savage in the first place as he is definitely from the old school where Savage's were not that great. I kept telling him how all these guys on the internet loved them and he still thought I was crazy for not buying the Sako or Cooper. I have to say after my first trip I was having a hard time arguing, but I am hoping I can find a cure and redeem myself. Otherwise this thing is going to be for sale or traded before I head to Montana for a 5 day p-dog shoot.

glenn asher · Post by **glenn asher** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:32 am

Dunno what to say, I shot these two groups AFTER two hard-shot PD trips, in an Accutriggered 10FP

.

82boy · Post by **82boy** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:31 am

Trust me, dont give up it will shoot !!!!!!
It is probly something simple, go over the rifle closly.
I had a 10fp in 223 that right out of the box would shoot 3/8 inch groups at 100, with remington ammo. I sold that gun because I needed the money, boy I wish I still had it.

throught the years i have owned quite a few savages and stevens rifles, never have I seen one that would not shoot.

How many rounds do you have through the barrel, and what poduct are you using to clean the barrel ? I found on a perfectly clean barrel it take about five rounds worth of fouling for the groups to settle down and shoot well.

Ahab · Post by **Ahab** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:58 am

[quote="82boy"]I have never seen a savage thet would not shoot under 1. groups out of box. with any ammo. all I have delt with will shoot at least a.500 group without problem.

I have, and had one too! A model 111 that wouldn't do much better than
2" groups. Had to firelap the barrel then cut off 3/4" and re-crown before it would do any better. It happens. Most makes of rifles made today (in suitable calibers) will shoot MOA out of the box. Savage doesn't have a corner on the market in this respect. Every now and then you'll get a lemon.

goody523 · Post by **goody523** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:47 am

If anyone would get the one lemon, I'm sure it would be me. After I check out all the obvious stuff and take it back to the range I will see if this thing needs to take a trip down to Fred Moreo at Sharp Shooters to be corrected. Luckily his place is on my way to a customer I need to go see once in awhile so I can hand deliver it to him and see what he has to say. I was really hoping to avoid a situation like this, but I guess I'm in for the ride now. I was thinking about just ditching this thing and getting a Cooper, but I don't want some other guy stuck with my headache. We'll see how it turns out.

82boy · Post by **82boy** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:02 am

Fred is down the street from me and he does good work. The only thing is they are not open next week on the 15-18, also you may want to give them a call, I know fred is swamped with things to do.

If you do deside to sell it let me know I may be able to find a home for it.

goody523 · Post by **goody523** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:21 pm

I gave it a good cleaning and went over the action screws as well as the scope mounts and everything seems like it is OK to me (the rear action screw was a little loose, but nothing too bad). I am going to head back out to the range with it one more time and see if I can make it do anything better. If not I'll pull the action out and try to see if there are any high spots, etc.. If it still won't shoot, I may well talk to you about buying it. I am not that interested in being a gunsmith - I want to shoot the thing, not re-engineer it!

jo191145 · Post by **jo191145** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:35 am

Seeing as thats not a standard Savage stock I would check for bedding problems. Finding a loose rear screw could also indicate bedding problems.